If you were surprised to see Jodi Arias’ parents response to learning Jodi Arias was the prime suspect in the death of Travis Alexander you weren’t the only one. In fact, it is safe to say that judging by her parents’ reactions, they weren’t very surprised at all. Jodi’s father called her strange than immediately offered information that his in-laws’ gun was stolen and Jodi’s mother immediately discussed Arias as being mentally ill.
One of the most interesting facts from the tapes, in my opinion, was when Jodi’s mother stated that her daughter had a “fantasy” that she was abused as a child. Jodi’s mother told the officer that her daughter had not been abused growing up, but it was clearly expressed that Jodi Arias truly believed she was.
This could play into a false belief that Arias may have believed Travis Alexander had abused her when he in fact hadn’t.
But, I guess that depends upon your definition of abuse, as there is no doubt that it is subject to interpretation.
Check out the conversation that took place on April 3, 2013, Issues with Jane Velez-Mitchell and the full video from court below.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news. Extraordinary new police interrogation video of Jodi Arias`s parents grilled by the lead investigator in the case. Both her mom and dad say Jodi is bipolar and would freak out all the time. We`ll pull back the curtain on the secrets inside the Arias family. Were there warning signs Jodi was going to explode into violence?
Plus, court knocks off early, again. A domestic abuse expert leaves the stands saying she`s sick. Is she really just sick thinking about the verbal barrage that`s coming from prosecutor Juan Martinez? We`ll debate it all with our expert panel, and we`re taking your calls.
SANDRA ARIAS, JODI`S MOTHER: Jodi has problems.
JODI ARIAS, MURDER DEFENDANT (singing): It might change my memory.
(speaking): You should have at least done your make-up Jodi, gosh.
WILLIAM ARIAS, JODI`S FATHER: She`s a strange person.
ARIAS (singing): Oh holy night —
S. ARIAS: How could somebody do that? How?
Maybe she did do it.
I can`t even imagine. I can`t think about it.
W. ARIAS: She just — she doesn`t even feel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, breaking news as the defense domestic violence witness claims she`s too sick to continue testifying. Extraordinary new secrets exposed in just-released police interrogation tapes featuring Jodi`s mom and dad. Do these police tapes prove Jodi Arias`s own parents think she was always a strange girl who was capable of murdering in cold blood?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you live.
Jodi, seen here with victim Travis Alexander, in much happier times, admits, “Yes, I stabbed him 29 times, slit his throat from ear-to-ear, and shot him in the face,” but she says she did it all in self-defense. The man who she`s cuddling with right there.
And now we hear from Jodi`s own mother. In an emotional interview with cops, she blurts out, while sobbing, that Jodi had mental problems and was very troubled. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing? You OK?
S. ARIAS: Not good. No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need something special?
S. ARIAS: I feel like I`m going puke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK?
S. ARIAS: Yes, I`m OK. How could somebody — you say she did this — come back and just be normal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
S. ARIAS: Jodi has — Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I — I had quite a few of her friends call me and tell me that I needed to get her some help. They`d call me in the middle of the night and tell me that she needed help.
Jodi wouldn`t call me. We don`t have a good relationship, me and Jodi. She would call me in the morning all happy and call me an hour or two later in tears, crying and sobbing about something she didn`t want to talk about. And then — and her friends saw it, too. I had one friend call me in the middle of the night and even called a hotline for bipolar people. Said Jodi was bipolar and she needs help. And he talked her into coming back up here, so she could be around family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lots of people said there`s something was wrong with Jodi Arias. I mean, who on earth would do a headstand in an interrogation room when they`re being grilled for murder or send flowers to the grandmother of the man she did just kill?
This is damning. Her own father does not seem shocked when the detectives say they`re convinced his father killed Travis.
What`s your reaction to these new tapes? Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.
Let`s debate it with my expert panel. Panel, the more we learn about Jodi, her behavior seems completely bizarre, indeed crazy. She clearly did the killing and has admitted it. Why wasn`t Jodi`s defense “not guilty by reason of insanity”?
And just to start it off with a zinger, why don`t we start with somebody from the defense — Randy Zelin.
RANDY ZELIN, ATTORNEY: You know, you talk about the — this evidence from the parents as being damning. I think it`s damning for the prosecution, not for the defense.
We talk about bipolar. It`s a fight between mania — mania and depression. We think of mania, we think of crazy. We think of psychosis. What is psychosis? The inability to get what`s really going on. You live in an alternative universe. You`re not getting your life punched out if you`re nuts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know what you just said. But Jon Lieberman, please.
JON LIEBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, none of the experts in the case have said that she was bipolar, No. 1. She testified to the fact that she knew that what she did was, quote, “wrong.” She testified. So it`s clear that she knows the difference between right and wrong.
And sure, she is a mess. We see in that surveillance tape that you just showed. We know she`s a mess. But she`s also a liar over and over, and she has absolutely no credibility. But not one expert got up there and said that her diagnosis is bipolar.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Not only that, I mean, to me the headstand stuff was pure manipulation. She knew she was being recorded. I don`t care about that.
I do think her parents saying that she`s basically a sociopath in their own experience and has been for a very long time is the reason why this should have been an insanity case. But you know why it isn`t? By the way, I wrote a piece about this. It will be at my Web site later tonight, WendyMurphyLaw.com. And I answered this question.
Her insanity defense would have closed the door on all this crap we are hearing about sex, sex, sex, sex. In other words, she would have been forced to make a more appropriate defense based on science and diagnosis.
Instead, because it`s all about the reasonableness of her claim about self- defense, she gets to fill the courtroom with garbage for days on end. And it`s very distracting. Why is that good for the defense?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anahita.
MURPHY: Because if the jury cares about —
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: — they`re not thinking about the evidence.
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: I totally disagree with everything you are guests just stated, Jane. But I do believe that these videos are very difficult to watch. But I mean, I believe if anything they help Jodi Arias`s case. Because it`s consistent.
What her parents are stating to the detective is consistent with LaViolette`s testimony in court, that she had a dysfunctional childhood, that she didn`t have a good relationship with her parents. And that plays right into the defendant`s self-defense argument.
LIEBERMAN: If everybody that had —
SEDAGHATFAR: Excuse me, I`d like to finish my statement. That, you know, not only was she abused by Travis Alexander, but she also was abused by her parents. And that is why she had a reasonable fear for her life when she claims Travis Alexander lunged at her.
(CROSSTALK)
LIEBERMAN: There is zero — there`s zero evidence that Travis was physically abusive toward this woman.
And you talk about the domestic violence expert. She is basing 90 percent of her testimony on the 40 hours of interviewing Jodi, who is an admitted liar over and over and over again. Where does that leave the credibility?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to have a somewhat —
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: — conversation here. And I want to focus in on the possibility that Jodi Arias is bipolar. So before Jodi said, even states his own name to the detectives, he sits down and he says flat out, “My daughter is strange.” Listen to this, and then we`ll analyze.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. ARIAS: She`s a strange person. Because after she left the house, she acted strange. She was really friendly. Sometimes she would call real sweet. Then she`d call in a rage and just screaming at my wife. She did that for the last year and a half.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: If your daughter is being investigated for murder and your first instinct is to sit down and say, “Wow, she`s strange,” doesn`t that speak volumes, first of all, about the underlying relationship here? For that, let`s go to Simone Bien, relationship expert. He`s cold, this dad.
SIMONE BIEN, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Yes. You see, I always get upset, Jane — I`m sorry — when parents can`t parent their children. And, look, I understand that he would see her behavior as strange. Odd dogs, Jane, can see her behavior as strange.
She is sociopathic. I would probably describe her as more borderline than bipolar. But it`s clear she didn`t get the love and support from her parents. That`s what concerns me.
And I do think that will play for her advantage. If I was a juror, I would feel some sympathy towards her that she was potentially abused by her parents emotionally, certainly neglected and then again by Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this: A, her mother has been in court with her twin sister, Jodi`s aunt, every single day sitting there, dealing with the most triple-X-rated material involving her own daughter. So, that doesn`t, to me, say that she`s an abusive parent. That`s sort of counterintuitive.
The other thing is, we`re going to play video in the little bit where the mother said, “Hey, honey.” And this is long before her defense. This is back in 2008 when she`s talking to cops. “Stop talking about your abusive childhood. It didn`t happen that way.”
Now, I have to go to Robi Ludwig very quickly, psychotherapist. Do you think she`s bipolar? Bipolar is manic-depressive, mood swings.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. I think what she has is a borderline personality, and sometimes, there`s something called bipolar 2, which is a lesser version of bipolar disorder. It`s a less extreme version. And sometimes the symptoms overlap. So bipolar 2 and borderline personality disorder can present in a very similar way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Borderline is when you don`t know where you end and the next person begins —
LUDWIG: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: — and you see something that belongs to somebody else. You say, “I want that. Therefore, it`s mine. And I want you; therefore, you`re mine. And I want your house, I want your life, I want your” — and there are these people. Is she one of those people?
We`re just getting started. Jodi`s parents tell all in these stunning plates [SIC] — tapes. We`re going play them for you tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. ARIAS: The only time we ever searched her room was when she was in eighth grade and she was — she was growing pot. And we were getting ready to move. And couldn`t find my Tupperware container. She had it on the roof. Growing pot on the roof with her friends. And so we called the police and turned her in and wanted something done, you know, to scare her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
S. ARIAS: She told me she didn`t want to stay here long. She was going to leave. She did tell me that she was going to go down to Monterey for a few days, but she didn`t tell me when. I did not know she was leaving today. Maybe that phone call scared her. I don`t know.
Maybe — you know, maybe she did do it. I don`t know. I just cannot imagine her doing it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The truly shocking thing about these interrogation tapes: Jodi`s parents are not shocked, it would appear, to hear her daughter was suspected of murder.
Listen to how suspicious her parents were. Listen carefully, and then we`re going to debate it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. ARIAS: I just have an inclination. I don`t think so. She was just acting so normal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think?
W. ARIAS: I didn`t think much. I just thought what the hell. You know, I wanted to know what she did.
S. ARIAS: Jodi had a lot of — a lot of plans for her future. And she messed it up and do something that she did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any suspicion at all that she had anything to do with his death?
S. ARIAS: I asked her. I asked her. It`s the first thing I asked her. She came home, and she was fine. And then when he died, she — she didn`t call me either. She called my daughter and just told me in tears. She cried for three or four or five days.
And the first thing I asked her is, “Did you go to Arizona?”
And she said nope. “I have gas receipts and everything to prove it.” And — and that`s all she would say. She swore she did not go to Arizona. So of course I believed her, you know. But I questioned her about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you had enough suspicion to ask her?
S. ARIAS: Well, yes. Of course. Because somebody dies and —
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. This brings up so many issues. OK. We`re going to get to the gas cans in a second.
But first, I have to make a note. What mother hears that their daughter`s boyfriend has been murdered and says, “Honey. did you do it?” Right there, that tells me that there is a very big dysfunctionality, that they are very concerned about her mental state.
Now, if you listen carefully, Jodi told her mom she did not go near Arizona. When her mom said, “Did you do it, honey?” She said, “No, I didn`t go near Arizona. And I`ve got the gas receipts to prove it.”
So Jean Casarez, “In Session” correspondent, does that go right to the prosecution`s claim that she bought gas cans like the ones I have in my hands because she was planning to kill Travis and didn`t want to be caught filling up in Arizona? So she borrowed two gas cans and bought another, according to prosecutors, so that she could get in and out of Arizona without having to fill up and be caught on camera at one of those fill-up stations. And she`s already using that argument on her mother back in July of 2008.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S “IN SESSION”: Well, she`s consistent. You know, Jane, it is one of the strongest points of the prosecution. I think there is an argument the other way, but it is something that, once you`ve heard it, it`s hard to unwrap your mind around it. And it is part of what prosecutors say, well, premeditation. And that element is a critical one for them for first-degree murder.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, listen, I want to debate this. Should this tape that we just heard, where the mom says, “Oh, I asked my daughter, `Did you kill Travis?` and she said, `No, I wasn`t even in Arizona. I have the receipts, the gas receipts to prove it.`”
Should the prosecutor, in their rebuttal case, play that clip, because their whole case about premeditation hinges on the fact that she filled up gas cans so that she would not have to fill up in Arizona; that she could pretend she was never in that state and get away with killing Travis Alexander and leave the state — Wendy Murphy.
MURPHY: Well, I`ll tell you, I`m not sure I`d play the tape, because I do think it`s a bit sympathetic, and she doesn`t deserve it. And frankly, her childhood abuse is irrelevant, and I couldn`t care a less. She`s a grown up; she shouldn`t kill people.
But — but as for this question, I think it`s possible the judge has already ruled it can`t be used. Because otherwise, Martinez would have said to her on cross-examination, “Isn`t it true you said to your mother, `Mom, I have gas cans to prove that I didn`t drive there`?” Because that`s such a damning statement, and if she had denied it, he would be able to call the mother to the stand.
The fact that he didn`t ask that question suggests to me it`s already a done deal: the judge is not going to let it in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, hold on. Let`s go back to Jean Casarez. Did the judge rule that these interrogation tapes, or certain portions of them, could not be used?
CASAREZ: Interrogation tapes? You mean the interview tapes with the parents?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
CASAREZ: Well, that would be hearsay, because the parents are in court, at least, you know, in trial. So they could be called themselves to testify to those facts. If they — if allowed and deemed relevant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So bottom line, did the judge, do we know if the judge said, “Oh, you can`t use these interview tapes with the parents. They`re too prejudicial”? Or we don`t know?
CASAREZ: As far as that, I`ve never heard these tapes mentioned at all in any motion.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Interesting. And we just found out about them. We just obtained them through, I guess, a Freedom of Information type request recently.
Christine, North Carolina, your question or thought — Christine.
CALLER: Yes, Jane. Hey, I hope you`re doing well.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: I just want to make a comment. The self-defense case in the bathroom, the scuffle that Jodi Arias talked about, I think, if you look in the crime scene, there`s a robe hanging up on the shower. The two scales were not moved, and she said they scuffled in there. And there`s nothing knocked off the counters on that bathroom sink. So there could not have been a fight like she described in the bathroom area or that stuff would have been knocked off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re very observant. We just saw that blue — dark-blue bathroom right near the shower that this caller referred to. Excellent, Christine, North Carolina.
Tonight, check out “HLN AFTER DARK.” Vinnie Politan and Ryan Smith follow the evidence to answer tonight`s bold accusation: Jodi invented her parental abuse. We`ll present the evidence, and then our “HLN Jodi Jury” will decide whether or not it`s guilty or not guilty. Don`t miss “HLN AFTER DARK,” 10 p.m. tonight, right here.
And on the other side, more of these extraordinary parental-unit interrogation tapes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. ARIAS: She just got a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does she have a gun?
W. ARIAS: I don`t know. She just got a gun. She mentioned a Glock or something.
She just told me she got a gun. I said, “What do you need a gun for?”
She said, “Where I`m going I might need one.”
“Where you going?”
“I can`t tell you. I just want to feel safe — I want to feel safe where I go.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you want to put your family through a trial?
J. ARIAS: Can I do it all without a trial, or does there have to be a trial?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Apparently, there had to be a trial, and we`re now in the thick of it.
Jodi`s father tells detectives on these newly-released police tapes that Jodi had long been very secretive and that she would never share details about her life with her parents. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
W. ARIAS: She treated my wife like crap. I mean, verbally abusive on the phone with her. You know, we could never ask her anything about her personal life, ever, since the day she left the house. She would never tell us. She was secretive about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I find this fascinating. Because I have met people who are, what I would call unnecessarily secretive about their lives. They`re always withholding. You ask them stuff, and it`s almost like maybe there`s nothing behind all the mystery.
We know that Jodi kept a blog, a journal. She used MySpace. But when it came to her family, she had to hide things. So Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist, does that dovetail with her having bipolar, you know, manic-depressive highs and lows? Sometimes when —
LUDWIG: It could.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: — manic-depressives get low, they`re very hostile toward the world, and they feel like there`s a conspiracy against them, so maybe they have to keep secrets.
LUDWIG: Yes, I mean, what I think this could potentially suggest is that Jodi was feeling guarded, perhaps even paranoid; had this idea that, if she revealed anything, anything that was too much information, she would be endangered in some way, shape or form.
So there could — this could indicate that Jodi distorts reality in a way. And it`s an ever-so-slight distortion, but one that presents a lot of problems in terms of her living a successful life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Simone Bien, relationship expert, you know what I mean. I think most of our viewers have had that experience. I certainly have. With people, you ask them, you know, “Where did you go on vacation?” And they give you this cryptic answer, like it`s a big who cares? I was trying to make conversation. But people who are unnecessarily secretive, I always find that bizarre. And I wonder, why do they feel like it`s so important to withhold facts that really don`t amount to a hill of beans?
BIEN: I think that Jodi is very dead inside. And I — I just get this sense that she withholds, No. 1, actually, because she is partly delusional and in denial. And actually, if she speaks the truth, what comes out of her mouth will be very different from what is in her mind.
And secondly, she`s clearly not very good at intimacy. To have a conversation, there needs to be some kind of connection.
She could also be doing it to get more attention. It`s the whole Lindsay Lohan effect. Doesn`t matter whether it`s good attention or bad attention. If she appears mysterious, then she becomes suddenly more interesting. Here`s a woman who clearly doesn`t think she is any of above.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating insight. Yes, unnecessary mystery to become intriguing to get attention. I get you.
Julia, Louisiana, your question or thought. Julia, Louisiana.
CALLER: Hi, Jane. I love your show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
CALLER: My question is, at this late date, where we are in the trial, what would it be to have the jury sequestered? Can the judge do that at this time? And I mean, with everything going on, they`ve already tried to call for a mistrial. A juror has been let go. So what would be going on with them sequestering the jury?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jean Casarez, excellent question. We`ve had some problems now, 18 reduced to 17. And maybe some people are thinking there`s so much interest, national obsession that maybe it`s time to change it up a little bit and put these jurors in a hotel room and sequester them.
CASAREZ: You know, Jane, what we were able to find — you`re not going to believe this — the defense actually asked for sequestration of the jury. We found it in a minute order. And the judge denied it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s bring our panel in. Thank you for that, Jean.
Actually, after the break. We`re going to take a very short break, and then we`re going to discuss should this jury have been sequestered? Should they be sequestered now? Can that happen legally? Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were they going after Travis? For what reason? You tell me this, but you give me no reason.
J. ARIAS: They didn`t discuss much. They just argued.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About what?
J. ARIAS: About whether or not to kill me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For what reason?
J. ARIAS: Because I`m a witness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness of what?
J. ARIAS: Of him, of Travis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Travis` murder?
J. ARIAS: Yes, but I didn`t really witness it or see much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She called me in the morning all happy. Called me an hour or two later in tears, crying and sobbing about something she didn`t want to talk about. That happened. Her friends saw it, too.
I had one friend call me in the middle of the night. He called the hot line for bipolar people. Jodi is bipolar. She needs help. I mean she was just — like she was a total different person.
Jodi has mental problems. Jodi would freak out all the time. I had quite a few of her friends tell me that I needed to get her some help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Breaking news. Newly-released interrogation tapes — the cops are talking to Jodi`s mom and dad and they are spilling all sorts of extraordinary information saying they both believe she`s essentially bipolar. And she`s long been trouble and the mom tells the detective her daughter was not a stable person and often talked about suicide after she killed Travis Alexander.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She worried me. In fact, she talked about it a lot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of stuff did she —
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things like — things like — she talked about suicide to me a lot. The only reason I don`t do it, mom, it`s because of us. And I said do you know what Travis` family is feeling right now? I said if you kill yourself, that is what we would be going through only worse because you took your own life. Maybe not worse, I don`t know what their family is going through. I can`t imagine how you are feeling right now with Travis. Imagine what we would go through. She said that`s the only reason I don`t, mom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jodi`s mom in court every single day of this marathon trial. It`s got to be hell for her. Violence destroys so many lives, destroys the lives of the victim`s family, destroys the lives also of the defendant`s family. It`s hell all the way around.
Let`s debate though this issue with our expert about whether or not this jury should have been sequestered. We`re just hearing from Jean Casarez that the defense wanted the jury to be sequestered which is a fancy way of saying you stay at a hotel during the length of this trial.
Now given how long this has gone on, could that have been a good idea given how much media attention this trial has gotten, could it have been a good idea?
Let`s start with Wendy Murphy.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, maybe. My answer is maybe but it`s very clear that the judge would never have granted that request mid- trial because among other things, it really makes a big issue on appeal needlessly because the defense will say see, the judge finally recognizes that it was all terribly unfair. And so the whole thing has to be redone.
So I think the judge has to let it be. But they absolutely, absolutely will be sequestered during decision-making. And I think the judge will be careful now especially since one juror has been bumped to enquire regularly, make sure they are not watching things they shouldn`t and seeing things they shouldn`t and talking the way they shouldn`t.
There are ways. I mean lots of juries are never sequestered in much of these cases and they come to a fair decision.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And by the way, we just showed a copy of your new book, “Justice for Some” — “And Justice for Some” — a great book now out in paperback.
Anahita Sedaghatfar for the defense, is this potentially unfair because everybody is talking about this case? I mean I can`t walk out the street without somebody saying what about this woman?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. I totally think the jury should have been sequestered. Not only is this a high profile case, it`s a death penalty case. You can`t look anywhere without hearing about Jodi Arias, without reading about it, watching it on television.
So yes, whether you like her or not, Jodi Arias is entitled to be — she`s innocent until proven guilty. She`s entitled to a fair trial and that is being compromised because there is a possibility —
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman?
SEDAGHATFAR: — that jurors can be tainted.
JON LEIBERMAN, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: I think the flip side of that is when you sequester a jury, you also in many cases lose a lot of jurors. They start to drop out because it`s such an imposition on these jurors who are now told they can`t see their families especially in a trial that lasts as long as this one does. We are on the 40th day.
I mean I think the risk would have been had they been sequestered, it would have been that you would start losing jurors. And it just wouldn`t — it wouldn`t be a good way to do things.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen to this. Jodi claims she accepted the fact that she and Travis weren`t a good fit and that she didn`t want to marry him. But her dad, back in July of 2008, right around the time she`s getting arrested, claims oh yes, she planned on marrying Travis and mentioned some pretty obsessive behavior. Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She talked to my daughter, other daughter, Angela about getting married. Then they broke up. One day she called me crying hysterically when she decided to move to Mesa, Arizona. She snuck up to his house, she looked in the window and she saw him there on the couch with another woman and heard that she was planning on marrying this guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Simone Bienne, relationship expert, so much for her not wanting to get married. She`s hysterical when she sees him making out with somebody else.
SIMONE BIENNE, RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Yes. I mean she doesn`t know whether she`s coming or going. And without diagnosing her, because I think sometimes when you label people, we can`t hear the full story, but she is borderline-esque going back to sort of the fatal attraction aspect.
Her love is obsessive. It is all consuming. She wants to inhale him. And the sad thing is, if she can`t have him, well, nobody else can. And that`s what happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know what, Jon Leiberman, bugs me about this defense expert — we are going to talk about on the other side — is that she seems to be romanticizing Jodi`s relationship with Travis. And it`s sort of like painting this romantic notion of oh, she`s you know, broken hearted.
And I find that a little — more than a little offensive.
LEIBERMAN: Look, she`s got all of her facts and figures, we know that. But I agree with you. The problem is she`s trying to relate it back to hypotheticals in this relationship.
For example, she`s taking Jodi`s word that Jodi saw Travis masturbating to a picture of a naked boy. There`s absolutely no proof of that. So in effect, what it`s doing is it`s re-victimizing the real victim in this case over and over again — that`s Travis.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side of the break, we`re going to talk about the crazy goings on in court today, play more of the new interrogation tapes of Mom and Dad. And is Jodi crazy or cunning?
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ARIAS: It might change my memory
You should have at least done your make up Jodi, gosh.
(SINGING)
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(END VIDEO CLIP)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are all over this case. Later this week, Friday, I go to the gun range. I talk to a gun expert about Jodi`s claim that she used Travis` gun to shoot him in self-defense. You won`t believe what this expert found very, very suspicious about that claim. That`s Friday.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We told her we wanted to come visit her and she goes “Where are you going to stay?” She didn`t want us to stay at her house because she was afraid we were going to snoop through her stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is kind of strange.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the situation then. When she was in Palm Desert, (inaudible) I don`t know what else — it`s been a couple years then. She`s been a little crazy for a year. (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More of that extraordinary new interrogation video of Jodi Arias` mother and father. The dad particularly does not seem shocked that his daughter is accused of killing Travis Alexander. They both say she is strange. And they both say that think, essentially, she`s bipolar or exhibiting bipolar symptoms.
Now meantime, it was a crazy day in court today. Let`s go out to Selin Darkalstanian, our senior producer has been in court. What the heck happened today?
SELIN DARKALSTANIAN, HLN SENIOR PRODUCER: Jane, we started a little earlier today. Normally court starts in Arizona at 10:30. Today, we started at 9:30 because the judge feels like she`s trying to speed things along since this trial is lasting a very long time.
So we get through about two hours of testimony and then all of a sudden, the judge calls a five minute break, has the jury leave the room. Alyce LaViolette, the domestic violence expert is on the stand and she leaves the courtroom. And the judge excuses everybody.
Five minutes later, we come back expecting to continue testimony and all of a sudden, we are told that Alyce LaViolette, the domestic violence expert, is not feeling well and that court has been canceled for a day.
So another day we don`t get a full day of testimony. We get two hours in and she`s feeling sick. We all end up going home. And who knows what will happen tomorrow but we are going to tune in at 9:30 and find out if Alyce is feeling better and she can continue her testimony.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what`s the buzz? I mean I know — when I`m covering these cases in court, all the reporters are like “ahh”. Is everybody just going crazy? Speaking of crazy?
DARKALSTANIAN: Everyone is — everybody was shocked. They were like this is unbelievable. This woman has basically had two days of full testimony. We have seen her on the stand for a week and a half but because we keep starting and stopping. One day canceled; one day court. All the reporters are wondering what is going on.
I mean people were thinking that this is some type of a joke or something. Everybody in the trial has now called in sick at least one day.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable.
Let`s go out to the phone lines. Kathleen, New Jersey — thank you for your patience — your question or thought, Kathleen.
KATHLEEN, NEW JERSEY (via telephone): Hi, Jane. This is such a privilege for me. I admire you so much.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
KATHLEEN: But I`d really like to address the whole bipolar issue that`s going around.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Sure.
KATHLEEN: I could speak from experience, I have bipolar. I have had it for 30-plus years. And I can tell you from my own experience, we do not fly under the radar. You know when a person is having a manic episode or a depressive one. I have been hospitalized countless times. I mean there`s no way —
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you, Kathleen, do you think that Jodi Arias is bipolar?
KATHLEEN: Not at all. I think she`s sneaky. I think she`s very cunning, but no, you can`t switch it on and off like a light switch. My mania would cause me to be in a hospital, you know, a situation where I would need to be sedated to come down. The depression — I couldn`t get out of bed.
So it`s not something that, you know, you have one minute and it`s off like moods. Everyone has moods.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When you say mania, what are you talking about? Give me an example. Could the killing have been a form of her mania? And I don`t want to stigmatize bipolar people. There are many like you who get —
KATHLEEN: No, and I have never hurt anyone. But the mania is usually a thought that comes, you know — and this could be many thoughts that evolve. They are fueled by countless, you know, nights of being up, you can`t sleep, you are just charged and it`s almost like — I always said it`s the best high in the world, but it`s a very dangerous one because —
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I just want to go to Robi Ludwig quickly, psychotherapist. So this woman is saying no. She has bipolar and she doesn`t see — go ahead.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it sounds like this caller has bipolar 1, which is a more extreme version — a bipolar disorder where you have a full manic episode. There`s something called bipolar 2 where a person doesn`t have full-blown manic episodes — they have what`s called a hypomanic episode. And it only takes one hypomanic to be diagnosed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What is a hypomanic episode, tell me. Describe that. I don`t know what that means.
LUDWIG: It`s when you are having — you`re having racing thoughts. You`re feeling a little high, but it`s not as extreme as people who have bipolar 1 disorder. So it`s a milder version —
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So in other words it`s bipolar light.
LUDWIG: It`s — right — it`s bipolar light. It`s a milder version. Now having said that, many people who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, they only need to have one episode of either mania or hypomania to be diagnosed that way. They very often are irritable and angry and have no impulse control which we might be seeing with Jodi Arias.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, it`s hard to — one of our panelists said it`s hard to stick a label on somebody. We are human beings. All the labels don`t always apply perfectly. More of this extraordinary interrogation tape on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since Travis` death, she has been the best relationship we have had in our whole life. I said maybe this death has made her see that life is short and you have to, you know, you can`t be this way and it`s changing her. So, so, you know, the last few weeks I didn`t spend a lot of time with her, but I talked to her more than I have ever talked to her since she left the house at 18.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Time for Pet of the Day. Send you pet pics to hlntv.com/jane. Lola — such a gorgeous picture. Noah — simple, on the grass, smiling. It is a happy day. Boo says boo. And Joey says I`m at a party. Look at the balloons. I`m having fun. I`m celebrating.
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ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, DEFENSE WITNESS: During this argument he grabbed her and throws her to the floor. And when she hits the floor she makes a sound and he says basically don`t act like that hurts, bitch. This hurts. And he kicks her. And then he kicks her a second time and she is trying to block that kick. And he kicks her finger and breaks it. She shows me her hand. I see that her finger is broken.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is that Jodi Arias fighting back tears or trying to squeeze them out for the jury? Now this domestic violence expert for the defense pronounced Travis and Jodi`s relationship today as domestically abusive. But I want to debate it with our expert panel. Everything she is saying is based on what a pathological liar told her. She is taking everything Jodi told her at face value.
So I`ll start with Anahita Sedaghatfar for the defense, how on earth could she make a valid conclusion that Travis abused Jodi based only on Jodi`s story?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, first Jane she has not just based her opinion on Jodi`s statements. She has reviewed tons of collateral evidence. And quite frankly I think Alyce LaViolette is the most effective witness the defense has called in this case because not only is she knowledgeable and credible but she is providing the answers those jurors wanted to hear about Jodi Arias` bizarre behavior. Why she didn`t report the abuse. Why she didn`t seek a restraining order. Why she didn`t report her abuse in her journals. This is all consistent with a victim of domestic violence —
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We get the idea but Wendy Murphy is giggling.
SEDAGHATFAR: It is not funny.
MURPHY: Look I`ve met Alyce. She is a lovely lady. I have met Alyce. I am very embarrassed for her. I think he is hurting all real victims of domestic abuse. I think she is hurting her career. When Juan Martinez is done with her, I don`t know if she will ever get hired again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Randy.
MURPHY: And here`s what she said today — no let me say this because she deserves to know this about the implications. When you testify in a case like this the way she`s testifying, it is bad business, ok. She said today I see no evidence anywhere of any jealousy that Arias has ever been jealous ever of Travis. Excuse me, Martinez grinned and that is right about the time she got I`m getting the flu, Juan Martinez is going to cross examine me flu. That`s about when everything wrapped up —
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Randy — Randy Zelin.
RANDY ZELIN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: First of all, anyone who is going to offer a verdict right now violates the basic tenet of a trial which is you don`t make any decision until all of the evidence is in and you have been told what the law is. But the bigger issue here is remember two things — the definition of reasonable doubt. You have to make a really important decision. You don`t have enough evidence, enough information. Murder 1? No way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`ll continue this debate on the other side.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jon Leiberman, might this witness have come down with the Juan flu?
LEIBERMAN: Well, I think Juan is going to come straight at her. Look, I counted she used the word “assumed” today six times. And that is a problem. She is “assuming” so much based on what Jodi told her. I think at very worst she has shown that Travis may have been a, quote, “bad boyfriend”. I don`t even believe that. But none of this speaks to self- defense and any sort of real threat to Jodi`s life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what is the impact of this trial dragging on for so long in terms of the relationship between the jurors and the defendant?
Nancy Grace is next.
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